[14] Several poems from her 2007 collection In the Pines were set to music by the Canadian indie pop band AroarA for their 2014 Polaris Music Prize-nominated 2013 EP In the Pines[15] and in Fall 2014, a conference celebrating Notley's work was held at the Bay Area Public School in Oakland, California. Ruth Lilly Prize winner Alice Notley on the voice and spirits of her poetry. Of course, we salute their past: all the greats, Guillaume Apollinaire and Pierre Reverdy, and some well-known others. Education: Barnard College, New York, B.A. And its influenced by dactylic hexameter. , 1998. DR: Well I think of Williams as a kind of Calder mobile waiting to enter into movement. I certainly wouldve used anything to keep from being sent. Its deliberate, in order to find something out. Tracing the fight for equality and womens rights through poetry. As is often written in her biographical notes, "she has never tried to be anything other than a poet," and with over forty books and chapbooks and several major awards, she is one of the most prolific and lauded American poets today. Her last collection, Mysteries of Small Houses, was a finalist for both the Pulitzer Prize in poetry and the Los Angeles Times Book Prize. Of her 1983 workshop, Notley wrote: I expect my workshop will be similar to past Alice Notley workshops: same old format, assignments, xeroxes, forms, occasions, geometries, kinds of poems, speculations on and practice of the lofty and the silly. One of her main currents of experimentation has revolved around the search for a feminine epic, one that could serve as an alternative to the male stories that have dominated the history of poetry since Homer. This interview took place in Alice Notleys apartment in Paris, in June 2018. Alice Notley wanders through a Paris cemetery and speaks to her dead father about her life in France, where she has lived since 1992. Im closely influenced by them, and working with Apollinaire at the moment. 57, no. AN: I use all those units and I am aware of how they overlap. I. It emasculates her. I went downstairs. In a lecture titled Thinking and Poetry, Notley underscores the deep difficulty of following ones own direction: I find being a poet something that must start again all the time; Im In addition to poetry, Notley has written a book of criticism (Coming After, University of Michigan, 2005), a play ("Anne's White Glove"performed at the Eye & Ear Theater in 1985), a biography (Tell Me Again, Am Here, 1982), and she has edited three publications, Chicago, Scarlet, and Gare du Nord, the latter two co-edited with Douglas Oliver. I was one of his friends in Paris. DR: Where leftover misery goes Can a poem be like a dance? Her honors also include an Academy Award in Literature from the American Academy of Arts and Letters and the Shelley Memorial Award from the Poetry Society of America. Orpheus is a stand-in for poetry. In 2015, she was awarded the Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize. AN: I read it when I was about twenty-three, in English. This period also marked an increase in scholarly interest in Notley's work. And its influenced by dactylic hexameter. But although it feels dashed-off, OHaras essay is more than fashionable flash. DR: Anne Waldman was an important figure with the [St. Marks] poetry project. The first workshop that I taught was a crucial one for that generation actually. DR: Eileen Myles is another poet who comes from an Irish, working-class, New England background and lost her father. Notley's elegiac work during this era, including her poems "Beginning With a Stain" and "At Night the States," is some of her most widely celebrated. There are passing moments that neednt be dwelled upon, but if youre going to go to war against a couple of countries, I think you merit an accusation of doing just that. New York: Scribner Poetry, 2001, p.120-124. I can do that with my speaking voice in poems. Ones not overshadowed like in forests elsewhere, but its particularly harsh, and hot: the Mojave goes up to 120-125 [Fahrenheit], sometimes. 57DR: Now I heard you say that the cadences for The Descent of Alette emerged from Monteverdi. Alice Notley: Im from the desert which I found intensely attractive as nature, and its my nature reallyI havent been back in six years but I love. DR: He was deeply inspired by the Hindu tradition, which was brave and opens the culture up. Ive mostly dredged it all up, and I know how to get to it without dreaming. AN: The whole book is about her, actually: she and Medea keep coming back. After having befriended the British poet and novelist Douglas Oliver during an earlier trip to England, Notley later reconnected with him, marrying in 1988 and moving to Paris in 1992. In the Pines, Montreal: Club Roll, 2012. 103DR: There are some lines from your poems, wrought like those in Stein, that one could carry in ones head all day and it would color that day; for example, that thinks but not only on words is one; all thats left of the old world are beautiful voices, is another that might change ones day. Were you and he on the same wavelength politically? To come back to this one, I read it as a kind of danse macabre because theres something resembling skulls going on here with the top of the fan supports. DR: Like Ted Berrigan and Anne Waldman reading at Saint Marks church their collaborative poem, Memorial Day (May 6, 1971), that episode of Public Access Television. Notley's early work laid both formal and theoretical groundwork for several generations of poets; she is considered a pioneering voice on topics like motherhood and domestic life. because theres something resembling skulls going on here with the top of the fan supports. The book took its title from the address of their home on Long Island and was published by Berrigan's C Press. This is before the lost sacred corpus vision, someone says Look at my author photo. AN: Like dolmensyes, something like that. 58AN: I actually listened to Monteverdi to get the cadences that were before The Descent of Alette: particularly in White Phosphorus (1988) and at the end of Beginning with a Stain (1987). Made a halo around our syntax and ourselves as we laughed. Can we talk a little bit about the pop culture that figures in your work? He could write any time he wanted to; Im like that too. For example my poem In the Pines has been set to music by AroarA, who are two members of the Canadian, indie group, Broken Social Scene, Andrew Whiteman and Ariel Engle, whove done something mesmerizing; also, my son Eddie is both a poet and an indie musician: I know about some indie people from about 2000, not so much after that. Whys not valid here. Her first husband, Ted Berrigan, was an equally charismatic figure among an influential group of downtown poets. Her poems have grappled with how to depict and think about motherhood, and her influence for a later generation of poets exploring these same subjects is hard to overstate. Alice Notleys influence on a later generation of poets exploring the subject of motherhood is hard to overstate. I used to substitute teach for him, sometimes, at Brooklyn College. NOTLEY, Alice. The stream of shattered consciousness is occasionally punctuated by shaped picture-poems, variously representing a ship, a face, a winged coyote. Twitter, For three or four years my father danced the Hopi snake dance with a live snake in his mouth. [7], In 1974, Berrigan got a job as a visiting poet at University of Essex, so Notley and Berrigan, with their son Anselm, relocated first to London, then to Brightlingsea in Essex. Here is a brief introduction to her poetry through some of the poems that appear on the Poetry Foundation website, in chronological order from her earlier books to her more recent work. Aeneas founded a city, Rome. I made this in about 2005. To Annapurna or Mt. [3] American Literature between the Wars, 1914-1945. Gen. Ed. She met the poetTed Berrigan, and the couple lived in Southampton, New York (in the garage of painter Larry Rivers); Manhattan; Providence, Rhode Island; and Bolinas, California. [12] Her own book, entitled Parts of a Wedding, was published first in a small edition by Unimproved Editions then later as a section of the O Books anthology O One.[13]. Its not around me much now. Chicago: C Press, 1971. Request a transcript here. I think all poets do that; its also something out of the tradition of folk music. , Montreal: Club Roll, 2012. NOTLEY, Alice. ASHBERY, John. Wholeness is not the same as unity. If we compare them with painting, they work like the zips in Newmans painting. The poem is addressed, at least in part, to Berrigan, who died in 1983, and the speaker longs to make sense of a country without him in it. DR: There are some lines from your poems, wrought like those in Stein, that one could carry in ones head all day and it would color that day; for example, that thinks but not only on words is one; all thats left of the old world are beautiful voices, is another that might change ones day. When I was becoming a poet, folk music was popular; Bob Dylan was getting started; and he was that kind of magpie. 116AN: I was there. Edwin Denby made his name as a dance critic, but his poetry was a pivotal influence on the writers and artists of the New York School. Instead of second-guessing their style, we could talk about the way they handled the tasks. 29AN: He has complete syntactical thoughts, then he interrupts things at the conjunction. For some 45 years, she has striven against the forces that stifle idiosyncrasy. 44AN: That photo in the middle is me at age ten, I think. The circle of younger poets who spent time with Notley and Berrigan included the aforementioned members of the Yellow Press team, Barbara Barg, Rochelle Kraut, Rose Lesniak, Bob Rosenthal, Steve Levine, Simon Schuchat, Tim Milk, and several others. This novel in poems, as its jacket copy describes it, covers the life of Marie, a woman who lives in a shack in the town dump. Alice Notley wanders through a Paris cemetery and speaks to her dead father about her life in France, where she has lived since 1992. David Reckford: Among the physical, cultural, and intellectual environments that have formed your particular sensitivity, there seems to be several strong and contrasting places. AN: I wrote an essay about her work in a book of essays called. In the case of John Ashbery, theres a poem called Syringa (1977) with an Orphean motif. As Notley writes in The Prophet (1981): One is you & all this & two & yet. The yet is where poetry begins. My poems are full of creosote bushes, and athel trees which are extremely ugly trees that somehow got there, who knows how, maybe by way of the Colorado River which goes right by where I grew up. And theres a poem called This Kind of Paradise (1986) where the Hopis suddenly appear in a bureaucratic Food Stamps Office. , in a Chicago museum. I gave a talk on his poetry last month, in New York, which I wrote during the cold snap, when it was too cold to go out for three days. and Laurence B. HOLLAND. NOTLEY, Alice. DR: The conversation has veered far from Needles, which I hope we will return to, as we evoke various social spaces that seep into the poems. The sense of something escaping is well illustrated by your poem, Where Leftover Misery Goes, among others. 78When we moved to Needles, there had been a cry house which was a place where the Mojaves would go to cry when somebody died, and there was now this pile of boards: my mother was completely fascinated by the cry house, thus she would use that phrase; one of the first stories I wrote on route to the University of Iowas Writers Workshop for an MFA as a prose writer was about Needles, concerning a white man who goes to the cry house to cry. But I met himI met everybodyaround 1968. So I grew up as friends with Native Americans, and imbued with certain things; I was also attuned to what had happened, without knowing fully, because there was a kind of sadness among the Mojaves in my town, along with immense curiosity and interest among some Anglos. He taught some writing: one writing class, and one civilization and literature class. nature. Theres no garbage. Notleys next book, Mysteries of Small House (1998), is an experiment with the autobiographical mode, in which Notley was firstly trying to realize the first person singular as fully and nakedly as possible. Her subsequent book, Disobedience (2001), heads in the opposite direction, showing disobedience to the notions of truth and reality, featuring comic confrontations with reoccurring characters like Robert Mitch-ham, a man that closely resembles the actor Robert Mitchum. I think that is what she said, because her greatest influence was Henry James: she takes his sense of the sentence and turns it into those stanzas. The Goddess who created this passing world. 100DR: What do you think of Gertrude Stein and of the kind of permutations she does: almost like rolling things around in your mouth? New York: Penguin, 1998. I just sat in here and wrote about Allen and the international aspect of his work. She distrusts change. 75DR: Speaking of Anne Waldman somehow makes me think of the presence of Native Americans in your work. My name is ending refused Notleys persistent nonconformismone of her most difficult works is called Disobedienceinsists that further possibilities exist. Songs for the Unborn Second Baby. There were various famous people now that were in it like Susie Timmons. To come back to this one, I read it as a kind of. Courtesy of the artist, re-photographed by Daesong Kim, April 2018. However, when you dream you get more, particularly images, which I dont have enough of right now. The Indians said: No, we wont do it, but we will send people to teach them to you. The tribes then would send the people to Prescott, and every year they would teach these businessmen dances. New York: American Poets Project Library of America, 2004. NOTLEY, Alice. It seems nobody has any sense of tone of voice any more. I have some Cherokee Blood, perhaps one-sixteenth Cherokee. Her poems have also been compared to Gertrude Stein, as well as her contemporary Bernadette Mayer. I was influenced by Koch, particularly by the period starting with the second The Circus (1971). 74AN: Well, you learn a lot from teaching, at the beginning. Doug [Oliver] had died, and it was 2001. At Night the States Perpetually strapped for cash, the two took on whatever small jobs they could to support the family. I could have a conversation about Royal Trux: a very chaotic indie group, sometimes awful, sometimes amazingly brilliant. xx. AN: I learned a lot from him on that level. I figured it out afterwards. I had it for a long time and it started to break. A woman whose work completely knocked me out. In the case of John Ashbery, theres a poem called Syringa (1977) with an Orphean motif. Sign up for the Books & Fiction newsletter. 107DR: Lets see, arrive the exactitude of pitch the tune in words alone; thats In the Pines too. West Branch, Iowa: Toothpaste Press, 1981. , Portland, WA: Fonograf Editions (Octopus Books), 2019. 50AN: Well possiblyI take in a lot of things that I dont know about, or that I dont remember. Recent books continue to be at least somewhat character centered. 67My poem The Prophet (1981) is based on his poem Some General Instructions (1971). For your work, from that angle, the place to start would be the collages you make, visual art. In an important essay titled The Poetics of Disobedience, Notley says this shift began with her book The Descent of Alette (1992). I learned everything from the variable foot from Asphodel, That Greeny Flower.. 2023 Cond Nast. which went: If I was the King of the World, Id throw away all the cars, thus broadcasting the idea. 16DR: Indeed, Berrigan and OHara were both Irish names. But her writing exerts intense attraction. Alice Notley was born in Bisbee, Arizona in 1945 and grew up in Needles, California in the Mojave Desert. All rights reserved. AN: He has complete syntactical thoughts, then he interrupts things at the conjunction. Which is something that John Ashbery would probably have agreed with, in a way. In this emblematic early piece, the text spills across the page. New York: Penguin, 2001. When I was becoming a poet, folk music was popular; Bob Dylan was getting started; and he was that kind of magpie. 113DR: Yes, that brings me back to what I was saying earlier about Andr Bretons Nadja who sees things before they happen next and is just carted off: the status of mediums becomes a metaphor for the status of poetry in society. He could write any time he wanted to; Im like that too. As in her feminist epic The Descent of Alette, the quotation marks here both interrupt and sustain. Request a transcript here. The signature of her work is a restless reinvention and a distrust of groupthink that remains true to her forebears directive: to not give a damn. Miles Davis live at Birdland or something. You know that quotation from a Paris Review interview (1983) that everything is this underground river and you can just draw from it any time you want to. You know that quotation from a Paris Review interview (1983) that everything is this underground river and you can just draw from it any time you want to. Photographer unknown, Alice Notley teaching a workshop, Saint Marks Poetry Project, c.1980, courtesy of the Alice Notley, re-photographed by Daesong Kim. I actually feel bad when I dont write, like yesterday, but I always have something going on. Logic In response, another woman informs: "'he . Notley borrows images and inspirations from popular cultural (Muhammed Ali and Marlon Brando in 30thBirthday and comic books in The Ten Best Issues of Comic Books), as well as the more serious literary world. Flowery mantle. Homeric sacrifice? noise of darkness fear of, darkness now mantle of innocence King of his death now Home, Ive come home He said, Ive come home They were sacrificed for, nothing, for distant instants of thought All for your thinking, Illustration courtesy of Sophie Herxheimer, The Goddess Who Created This Passing World. 119At that stage, Allen Ginsberg, a really fine person, was extremely supportive. This is typical of what happens when I make a collage. Since I had all these poems without titles, I just randomly assigned Rons titles to the poems that ended up in For Frank OHaras Birthday (1976). . ASHBERY, John. Everyone who went there was either black or Hispanic. Since I had all these poems without titles, I just randomly assigned Rons titles to the poems that ended up in. Notley. Its possible Im living in the apartment of someone who was taken away to the camps. In that sad, beautiful book, theres so much irony, whereas some literary critics take everything at face value. is to take away from her the founding of a city, and transform her into this love suicide, and to rob her of her power. At that point Alice Notley was finding New York less amenable and was keen to go somewhere else. dreams. focusing on the foot; and hes probably also aware of the foot when hes doing the short stanzas. In Notleys hands, the free-roving speech of poets like OHara became a new way of exploring the permeability of identity on the page. I mean sometimes theres a lot of garbage but not usable garbage and so it takes me a long time to get anything made. The books were published under the imprint Unimproved Editions and Notley made cover art for the majority of the titles. As for my teaching at the Saint Marks poetry project, I gave assignments from week to week and I made the students bring in those rather than the poems they wrote on their own, to hold discussion without my having to criticize them too much. 93DR: To pursue with craft questions: in the Norton Anthology of American Literature (1979), in talking about Marianne Moore, they say: Pound writes with the phrase, Williams writes with the line, H.D writes with the image, Wallace Stevens and Gertrude Stein write with the word, but Marianne Moore writes with the entire stanza, and I was just wondering if there was a unit that you use? In reframing and re-empowing Dido and Medea, she is writing a meditation on destruction. That was one of the first things Ted [Berrigan] told me about John: he kept a list of titles, like Civilization and Its Discontents, then he would decide, Ah, that would be a great title for a poem, and then later he would check his list and pull that title out. Indeed, you are often spoken about as an engaged poet, like your late husband, Doug Oliver. 117DR: Its a beautiful indictment of bureaucracies and their inhuman treatment. Courtesy of the artist, re-photographed by Daesong Kim, April 2018. In her earlier work, Notley often incorporated the speech of people around her, particularly her children (as in her masterpiece January). Notleys struggle for solace and understanding is all the more moving for its contradictions, confusions, and stutters. Produced by Curtis Fox. Thats what Ive done ever since in different ways. URL: http://journals.openedition.org/transatlantica/13862; DOI: https://doi.org/10.4000/transatlantica.13862, Universit Paris Nanterre and cole nationale suprieure des beaux-arts de Paris, Creative Commons - Attribution - Pas d'Utilisation Commerciale - Pas de Modification 4.0 International - CC BY-NC-ND 4.0, https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/, Voir la notice dans le catalogue OpenEdition, Plan du site Mentions lgales et Crdits Liens Flux de syndication, Politique de confidentialit Gestion des cookies, Nous adhrons OpenEdition Journals dit avec Lodel Accs rserv, You will be redirected to OpenEdition Search. . For instance this collage that you put on the cover of. Ill read a part of it: Alice Notley, Where Leftover Misery Goes in. 118AN: It was definitely weird to get food stamps. (1986). NOTLEY, Alice. Her book, Coming After (2005), collects a series of sensitive essays she wrote about her own poetry and that of others from her poetic milieu. At that stage, Allen Ginsberg, a really fine person, was extremely supportive. KOCH, Kenneth. Its flowing world is populated by characters who seem to personify indeterminate pronouns (like a shaman named Qui) and theres a general defiance of set categories: and if one who renews refuses / gender? She lives and works in Paris. I dreamed about the children afterwards, you know, there were children being chased in this building. Then I found all the spots around the world in them and talked about them as being set in the world as a whole, saying that was a fitting poetry for now, when were all crossing borders all the time: spanning geography is the main event today, because there are so many people. Indeed, you are often spoken about as an engaged poet, like your late husband, Doug Oliver. One of the lines in that particular poem is actually straight from Dylan, which I finally just say: I know no one can sing the blues like blind Willie McTell. Id been quoting from the song all the way through in the whole poem. Its small and a bit fragile. (1954): that book is fantastic; he caught the new line, which he refers to in one of his letters. Instead of ushering us toward received truth or false comfort, her work searches and invites us to look for ourselves. 104AN: That was below that bed: the voices were calling to me from below the bed. DR: Your attitude towards staleness in the academic world, your sensitivity towards these questions of history and politics, indeed your measure and courage for speaking out reminds me of one first-generation New York School poet in particular, Kenneth Koch. Having published continuously for over 50 years, Notley is one of the most important and celebrated American poets of the 20th and 21st centuries. He would fly to Paris, find me, and we would have dinner; also, he had a group of Paris friends. 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