Hes a lost drunkard, and a wolf in sheeps clothing on his way to hell. The scars are still there but not that noticeable. No excuses. The question is whether anyone close to him (a) loves him enough to do the confrontation and (b) understands enough to do it well. Moreover, there is a context to this discussion. They also seem to be very kind and generous; not manipulative, etc. He was sentenced to 1 year and 183 days incarceration. Those that saw the issues, which were primarily with the entrepreneurial head pastor, minimized them and advised me to hang in there and focus on my small group fellowship. Miracles happen. There was a need for push back, since in the beginning you never outlined your reasons supporting R.C. He instead cut them, crossing into the opposite lane right on the extreme point of blind curves. I think that is all what she was getting at, her basic point. JA, I addressed that in a blog post on my Miss Daisy Blog some time ago (that my posts at Barbaras blog were censored for mentioning codependency. Finding resolve amidst the dissonance of "churchianity". An inexpressible blessing. The idea is to protect the congregation and also try to restore the clergy member to wholeness. Its not uncommon for conversations to turn sour when people who care deeply about a topic find themselves talking past each other. We hear all of the time the horrible counseling advice from Nouthetic Counseling/Biblical Counseling that people who are depressed or have other mental health problems arent really Christians if they take medication, havent tried hard enough, etc. 1. a serial killer, The lady in the story died of alcoholism. These need help. Only in the past few months have I started posting a little here. Is it possible that his son is reacting to the terrible theology he was taught? Do you realise how offensive that is? On May 30, 2017 RC Sproul Jr appeared before Judge Frances C. Gull in Allen County Indiana Drug Court to determine his eligibility for the Drug Court Treatment Program. He has made some very poor choices, many of which have directly harmed his family. (This is different from hiding them for a little while and bringing them back on an apology/book tour. The recidivism statistics bear this out, and the treatment programs are just as disappointing. When my hubby was in college, his favorite uncle (who was a terrible alcoholic) died holding my husband's hand. Maybe the congregation in question would give the same love and grace to someone in a pew. Im not sure about that. It is criminal. Its hard here to put everything in words, but I really dont think we are very far apart on this issue. He DOES speak of a time to cut off fellowship with a believer who does not repent of sin when someone goes to him about it. I know this. Velour was strongly pushing people on this thread for a good long time regardless of motive, which none of us were privy too until someone much later on asked her if this topic triggered her in some fashion. Enabling him will help kill him, and that is no kindness. (The passage says these are found in the world, yes and moreover, in the church we are all sinners. Perhaps on my wedding anniversary. Christiane wrote: I reacted too strongly to some things you said. Its a multi-pronged approach to dealing with an alcoholic. Because I have had my nose rubbed in Sproul Jrs teaching for a couple of decades, I took my own understanding from what she said, quite the opposite of the one you seem to have taken. So someone asked how can sitting in the pews help a recovering alcoholic. RC Jrs message has long been that heavy drinking is manly and if you want to be a real man (like him?) Velour, Im very sorry I hurt you. I think the warning labels on alcoholic beverages are too bland. Many people including women secretly struggle with addiction in the church. Velour wrote: Having been raised in a highly abusive alcoholic home (My mom) it sickens me sometimes to read about the love and compassion we should have for the addicted.And for the we are all just sinners crowd your ignorance is truly sickening. That Frankenstein line of forehead stitches did it heal up? Hitting bottom helps. Not all former drinkers transform into likeable people. V- ^ ,v . I saw several psychologists and psychiatrists in person over years, and none of them diagnosed me properly, and so were unable to help me. Those two do not go together. You have no clue what I know about substance abuse, 12-step programs, etc, based on my comments here. I had already read your first comment about Barbara and codependency. Barbaras comment on Friday at 5:40 p.m. I dont think Okrapod specialized in treatment of alcoholics and substance abusers. And even if they want it sometimes its too difficult. I would just like to add that many Al-Anon meetings are safe and warm places. I thought she was referring to a professed believer who would not repent, but I may have been reading between her lines. Then the plea deal is even worse than listed. I have an occasional drink, but honestly can barely muster up the desire for that, given what Ive seen. His three other criminal charges, two misdemeanors and one other felony, were dismissed under a plea agreement in exchange for his pleading guilty to the one felony. (And that was pretty much the end of our short relationship, such as it was.). If not, see our friends at Ancestry DNA. I've enclosed a letter from Lael Hill, the Indiana State coordinator for MADD who I've been in contact with. Please pardon me for saying this, but from the tone of your comments, it seems as if your reaction was more to go to war with Barbara than to try to find out what she actually meant. People dont have to reinvent the wheel to find help. 5, that you mention: From 1 Cor. I have been following RCs teaching for some time. If he Sproul gets clean and sober he will probably ditch many ideas that he used to justify including patriarchy. When I am around a person/s who are alcoholics, I will not drink alcohol because I dont want to be a cause for them to be tempted to drink. They are likely growing up in a home with an alcoholic and will develop serious problems as the years go on. Thats why I gave you push back, because a lot more is at stake than just him and how this is handled. I dont support enabling him. I dont doubt any of the bad things that people claim that R.C. Drunk driver got Vehicular Manslaughter (if not outright Murder) added to his DUI. an invitation to share his/her story. She was in the hospital for several months after the accident. Not sure I would quite go this far (God is the only that can really say this) but RC2 certainly has denied Gods power that Paul wrote about in II Tim 3:5. Friend your comment made me weep. (Barbara also doesnt allow the word codependency to be used on her blog and people are banned. There is no reason for churches to be stuck in the Dark Ages on subjects such as substance abuse, sexual abuse, mental illness, domestic violence and a host of other prevalent problems that will come up in peoples lives. 6:1-4: What shall we say, then? Like calories. Sr. cant make Jr. stop drinking. A lot of injury can be done by someone driving under the influence of alcohol. The scars are still there but not that noticeable. and me: It takes a tremendous faith in Gid, as well as support from non judgement all Christians to let go and let your child experience the consequences. But I have a lot of sympathy for his kids/family, and hope he gets help for their sakes. It just sounds creepy to me. I lost all of my friends of 8 1/2 years and people were ordered to never speak to be againand none of it was true. Prison might have done Sproul some good. Some of us do know him, and some of us knew him far longer than you have. From this one statement (R C Sproul Junior needs to be put out of the church and that needs to be very publicly done because he has been so significant at Ligonier. My extended family has a lot of alcoholics. Velour wrote: It turned out to be rum. __ @Velour, didnt you just say, We really need to drop it as this point.? I get that church is not just a building, its people. This is probably the best option for all involved. Sure enough, car driving very slowly and deliberately down the wrong side of the street. Basically, he lied. By the very nature of the role he occupies, he likewise claims authority over what God is or is not saying to the members of the organisation. I just dont know any. Its almost as if their sinful exploits give them more street cred, and justify their continued sin. Velour was being hostile to a few people up thread such as Barbara and Julie Anne, and later, to me. what a moron. Yes, the pain is awful. it did sound harsh, didnt it, sometimes getting angry is the first step out of depression . Would it be okay with you to then obey what Jesus and Paul say in the Word of God? Why do so many people not realize they are doing what Paul refers to here in II Cor 11 19-21: For you, being so wise, tolerate the foolish gladly. I would tend to agree with her about this person, assuming that he has, as some have claimed, publicly and speaking from some position of religious prominence defended his actions. Nobody kicked her out. RC Jr needs professional help and Ive already said so on the Spinderella blog. RC Sproul, Jr. was interacting with people, so I joined in. I would say the same thing if the person was a diabetic and required insulin. He is not a strong man, apparently. posted earlier to the other website dealing with Sproul Jr. Our group was a safe place for parents. For several decades the 12 step model/solution has been the dominant one in US treatment facilities. I have read it several times, actually. So these people have a high tolerance for alcohol, habitually drink large amounts on a regular basis and your first impression is that they may not be alcoholics? In reading through the Spinderella blog, I read a number ofcomments which accused SproulJr. of telling people in his former church to stop taking medications for psychiatric disorders. Sproul Jr. needs serious help. Barbara wrote a pretty nasty response to me and H.U.G. Barbara simply made some kind of reference to Scripture about biblical discipline that you dont agree with. Wartburgers, I suppose I should recuse myself from further comments on this piece. Treatment can help only those who reach rock bottom. After the alky refuses to cooperate, which most drunkards do (sorry for substituting the Dark Ages biblical term), what then? RC Sproul Jr has destroyed the lives of quite a few people with alcohol, especially young men who are insecure in their manhood. Julie Anne wrote: But doesnt seem all that likely. Denise Sproul passes away from leukemia. Sproul Jr. is not qualified to keep his pastoral job. Thats the Lord Himself teaching, so I dont take that lightly. I seems you didnt get the joke. He said I was his first patient to do that and he complies since he knew we are medical people and could spot a problem with a clot. Right. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? I wasnt raised with the concept that your church keeps tabs on what youre up to. An apology/book tour possible that his son is reacting to the other website dealing with an alcoholic will. Alcoholic ) died holding my husband 's hand ( the passage says these are found in hospital! 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